亨特合伙人阿雀在国会作证的结论性证词

乌克兰总检察长舒金被撤职对亨特任董事的乌克兰能源公司是件坏事

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问： 您是否知道（乌克兰能源公司布利斯马的顾问）瓦迪姆告诉（华盛顿咨询公司）蓝星，他面临的问题/压力之一是跟（乌克兰总检察长）舒金和（乌克兰政府）对布利斯马的调查有关？Are you aware that Vadym had told Blue Star that one of the issues/pressures that he was facing was related to Shokin and the investigation into Burisma?

阿雀答： 是的。 坦率地说，我记得这一点，是因为（乌克兰能源公司布利斯马和华盛顿的咨询公司蓝星他们）明白对我的叙述是，舒金是在（乌克兰能源公司布利斯马）的掌握中，无论下一位带来的是谁，事实上他是。这就是当时（在华盛顿的人们）跟我叙述的全部情况，（乌克兰总检察长舒金）舒金被解雇不是好事，因为就（布利斯马公司老板）麦寇拉来说，舒金是相当于在掌握中。So -- yes. I was -- the narrative that was spun to me, quite frankly, just to be -- and I remember this because, obviously, it's -- the narrative that was spun to me was that Shokin was under control and that whoever the next person that was brought in was -- you know, the fact that he was -- this is the total, this is the narrative spun to me, that Shokin being fired was a -- was not good, because he was like under control as relates to Mykola.

问： 您是否知道瓦迪姆明确告诉蓝星战略公司，他想要解决的问题之一是解决（乌克兰总检察长）舒金对布利斯马的调查？With that said, though, are you aware that Vadym specifically told Blue Star Strategies that one of the issues that he wanted resolved was resolving Viktor Shokin's investigation into Burisma?

阿雀答： 我不记得瓦迪姆具体说过。但是，我再说一次，我听来的是与此完全相反的叙述（即上面谈到的舒金被撤乌克兰总检察长职位实际对布利斯马公司不利）。 I don't recall Vadym saying that specifically. I don't -- but, again, I was spun a narrative that was quite the opposite of that.

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问： 基于此，你在这里的证词是亨特·拜登和（乌克兰能源公司布利斯马的顾问）瓦迪姆从未讨论过（乌克兰总检察长）舒金对（乌克兰能源公司）布利斯马的调查吗？从来没讨论过？And so, based upon that, is it your testimony here that Hunter Biden, Viktor Shokin never -- excuse me -- Hunter Biden and Vadym never discussed the investigation by Shokin into Burisma? Ever？

阿雀答：对，我之前回答过，我得到的叙事是舒金（担任检察长）对布利斯马公司好。 Yeah. I was -- and I answered it before. I was spun a narrative that Shokin was good for Burisma ：

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问： ... 你之前说过——你的原话是（乌克兰能源公司）布利斯马觉得他们掌控了舒金。you had said earlier that -- I believe the direct quote is that Burisma felt like they had Shokin under control.

阿雀答： Correct 对的。

问：你指的是什么？What did you mean by that?

阿雀答： 就像华盛顿特区团队的多人告诉我的那样，舒金被解雇对布利斯马不利，因为他在（布利斯马）掌控之中。That was like -- that was a narrative that was -- that was told to me by various of the D.C. team, that the firing of Shokin was bad for Burisma because he was under control.

问： “在掌控之中” 是什么意思？What did you understand "under control" to mean?

阿雀答： 我的理解是他们可能只会（对布利斯马公司）处以打打手（的轻微惩罚），而不是没收所有资产。Meaning that they were going to maybe give a slap on the wrist as opposed to, you know, seize all his assets.

拜登跟亨特及商业伙伴通话是谈天气和风土人情吗

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问：您是否曾经知道亨特·拜登或您在跟其他潜在商业投资者或你们一直试图与之合作或正在与之合作的其他外国人会晤时，亨特打电话给他的父亲？have you ever been privy to Hunter Biden calling his father around other either potential business investors or other foreign nationals who Hunter Biden or you may have been trying to work with or were working with?

阿雀答： 有的。

问：您能向本委员会介绍一下是什么情况吗？Can you please tell the committee about that?

阿雀答： 再说一遍，就具体细节而言，我们可以讨论。 但是，亨特每天都和他爸爸通话，你知道吧？所以在某些情况下，在晚餐时候，你知道，如果他爸爸这时给他打电话，他接了电话，那么就会有一次谈话。 而且，你知道，谈话通常是关于天气，以及挪威、巴黎或亨特当时所在的任何城市怎样呀的情况。 那就是，就是他们通话的情形。Again, it's -- as far as specifics, we can talk about it. But, you know, Hunter spoke to his dad every day, right? And so in certain circumstances, when you're in -- you know, if his dad calls him at dinner and he picks up the phone, then there's a conversation. And the, you know, the conversation is generally about the weather and, you know, what it's like in Norway or Paris or wherever he may be. But that was -- yeah, that happened.

问： 您是否知道亨特·拜登在您现在描述的这些电话互动中把他的父亲打开了免提？Are you aware of Hunter Biden putting his -- or have been told that Hunter Biden put his father on speakerphone during any of these interactions that you're just describing now?

阿雀答：有的。

问：可以告诉我们是什么样的情形吗？Can you please tell us about that?

阿雀答： 亨特偶尔在他爸来电时打开免提。 具体的，比如，你知道，偶尔有在晚餐的时候。He put him on speakerphone, again, occasionally. Specifics, like, you know, dinner -- you know, dinners occasionally.

问：你能告诉我们那些晚餐的情况吗？Can you tell us about those dinners?

阿雀答：可以的。 我记得一次是在巴黎与一家法国能源公司共进晚餐，当时我们正在与一位顾问交谈，然后我们正在与之交谈。 归根结底，这确实是 （亨特、阿雀跟人创办的投资咨询公司）Rosemont Seneca Advisors 的一次营销活动。 亨特的父亲拜登有一个通话，亨特跟父亲说我们在巴黎的一家餐馆，然后亨特打开了电话扬声器。 所以这种情况确实发生了。那里当时还有其他人。Yeah. I remember a dinner in Paris with a French energy company that was -- we were speaking to an advisor, and then -- we were speaking to. And it was really a Rosemont Seneca Advisors type of -- a Rosemont Seneca Advisors kind of a pitch, at the end of the day. And there was a talk, and he said that we're at this -- you know, we're at this restaurant in Paris, and he put him on the speaker. So that did happen. There were other people there.

问：还有谁？Who else was there?

阿雀答：（在描述其他几位法国能源公司的经理之后）我相信他们也没有得到这份业务，请诸位知悉，这里面并没有什么事。And I believe they didn't -- they also didn't get the work, by the way, just an FYI, so there's not much about it.

问：你还记得亨特·拜登其它时候跟他父亲电话时打开免提吗？Do you recall other times where Hunter Biden placed his dad on speakerphone?

阿雀答：有一次跟晟荣星远公司（阿雀、亨特-拜登、李晓军作为创始人的有中国银行国资背景的私募基金公司）的李晓军。在北京某个餐馆，也可能是成都或者类似的地方。 我不记得具体细节了。 这个电话只是，它不是，就像，你知道，特别是在时区差异的情况下，有几次会议中时他的父亲会打电话给他，他会与父亲交谈或用免提扬声器。 我不会，你知道，这就是通话的情况。In Beijing, at, you know, some restaurant -- or Chengdu or something like that. I don't remember the -- I don't remember specifics. This was just -- it was not -- it was like a, you know -- especially with the time zone difference, there was -- you know, there were meetings where his dad would call and he would be talking to him or put him on speaker. I'm not going to -- you know, that's -- that happened.

问： 在与李晓军的通话中，你还记得拜登副总统说了什么吗？

阿雀答： 我的意思是，在任何具体细节上，概括地说，总是关于，你知道，不一定非谈天气，但是，你知道，没有 - 我认为你必须明白，没有关于股权结构表或费用或类似内容的商业谈话。 你知道，就是一般的礼貌寒暄，你知道，总的来说，你知道，谈话是关于地理，关于天气，诸如此类。但总地概括起来说，让我们这么说吧，没有任何时候，你知道，我目睹到通话是关于特定的商业交易或商业谈判，或者，你知道， 是关于什么特定的财务事宜。I mean, on any of the specifics, like, from a blanket perspective, it was always, you know, what's the -- you know, not necessarily the weather, but, you know, there's no -- there was no -- and I think you have to understand that there was no business conversation about a cap table or a fee or anything like that. It was, you know, just general niceties and, you know, conversation in general, you know, about the geography, about the weather, whatever it may be.

But just on -- as far as, like, a blanket for all of them, let's just go with the -- there was not a specific time that I witnessed a, you know, specific business deal or business dealings or, you know, specifics about any kind of financial stuff.

问：亨特会不会只是说，“嘿，哥们儿，我爸爸在电话上。爸爸，你可以跟大伙儿打个招呼吗？” Would he just say, like, "Hey, guys, my dad's on the phone. Dad, can you say hi to，you know。"

阿雀答：您理解对了。看到吧，政客就是这样。There you go. See? Politician.

拜登在外交政策或国家利益上跟亨特的生意混淆了吗

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问： 那么，（乔-拜登总统的儿子）亨特·拜登帮助引进了一批政府事务和游说专家来处理（乌克兰能源公司布利斯马）与美国政府机构的互动。这个说法是否公允呢？So is it fair to say that Hunter Biden helped bring in a group of government affairs and lobbying experts to handle the interactions with U.S. Government agencies?

阿雀答： 是的。这是一个公允的说法。yes, that's fair to say

问： 我听到你提及一个华盛顿特区团队，可以公允地说，有一整个华盛顿特区团队为布利斯马处理公关事务吗？And so I think you referenced a D.C. team. Is it fair to say that there was a whole D.C. team that handled public affairs on behalf of Burisma?

阿雀答： 是的。

问： 华盛顿特区的团队是像博伊斯·席勒（Boies Schiller）、蓝星集团（Blue Star Group）这样的公司，还有这位说客被请来处理国土安全部的问题。 这么说公允吗？And that D.C. team was firms like Boies Schiller, Blue Star Group, this lobbyist who was brought in to do the DHS issue. Is that fair?

阿雀答： 公允的 Fair。

问： 这位说客并不是（现任总统）乔-拜登。

阿雀答：不是的，他不是华盛顿团队。No, that's not -- that's not the D.C. team.

问： 你的意思是乔-拜登不是在华盛顿特区的团队 You mean Joe Biden is not the D.C. team.

阿雀答：对。

问：下面请你体谅，我想谈2020年（的参议院调查）。And so forgive me, but I want to bring up 2020。

2020年，早在几年前，时任共和党委员会主席的约翰逊和格拉斯利领导参议院国土安全和政府事务委员会以及参议院财政委员会进行了广泛的调查，试图揭示亨特-拜登代表（乌克兰能源公司）布利斯玛所做的工作跟当时的副总统拜登在执行美国官方的乌克兰政策的作用之间的联系。In 2020, going back a few years, the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs and the Senate Finance Committee, which were then under Chairman Johnson and Chairman Grassley, Republican chairmen, conducted an extensive investigation in an effort to show some connection between Hunter Biden's work on behalf of Burisma and then Vice President Biden's role in carrying out official U.S. policy in Ukraine.

在长达一年的调查过程中，共发出了 46 张传票，对 10 名证人进行了 50 个小时的转录采访，并审查了数万页文件。As part of that investigation, there were 46 subpoenas issued, 50 hours of

transcribed interviews of 10 witnesses, reviews of tens of thousands of pages of documents over the course of a year-long investigation.

调查结束后，参议院少数族党工作人员发布了一份报告，总结了调查结果。 我想为您读一下这些内容。At the conclusion of that investigation, Senate minority staff issued a report summarizing the findings. And I'd like to read those for you.

“本次调查接受采访的每位证人都作证说，副总统拜登没有为了让他的儿子亨特·拜登受益而改变美国外交政策，而且亨特·拜登在乌克兰天然气公司布利斯玛的董事会中的任职对美国外交政策没有影响。Every witness interviewed for this investigation testified that Vice President Biden did not alter United States foreign policy to benefit his son Hunter Biden, and that Hunter Biden's presence on the board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma had no effect on U.S. foreign policy.

“每位证人都表示，亨特·拜登及其生意伙伴在美国政府的政策制定中没有发挥任何作用，亨特·拜登的角色没有影响美国的外交政策决定，副总统拜登在工作中是为了美国利益来执行美国外交政策。Every witness stated that Hunter Biden and his associates had no role in the formulation of U.S. policy, that Hunter Biden's role did not influence U.S. foreign policy decisions, and that Vice President Biden carried out U.S. foreign policy in the interest of the United States.

“这份少数党报告中提到的调查证据证实 ‘副总统’ 没有腐败、做错事或不当行为。The investigation's evidence, set forth in this Minority report, confirms there was no corruption, wrongdoing, or impropriety on the part of the Vice President. ”

读完上述段落后，我有几个问题请您根据自己的知识和经历回答。Having read that for you, I have a few questions for you based on your own knowledge and experience.

根据您自己的知识和经验，凭您与亨特·拜登的关系、您在布利斯玛董事会的任职时间、以及您的全部知识和经验，您是否有任何理由不同意这个结论：“副总统拜登 没有改变美国的外交政策来让他的儿子亨特·拜登受益”？So based on your own knowledge and experience -- your relationship with Hunter Biden, your time on Burisma's board, and the entirety of your knowledge and experience -- do you have any basis to disagree with the conclusion that, quote, "Vice President Biden did not alter U.S. foreign policy to benefit his son Hunter Biden"?

阿雀答：我没有依据知道他是否改变（美国政府政策）以使他的儿子受益。. I have no basis to know if he altered policy to benefit his son.

问：所以你不知晓他有改变美国政策以使他的儿子受益。So you have no knowledge of him altering U.S. policy to benefit his son、

阿雀答： 我没有这样的了解。I have no knowledge.

问： 你有什么依据不同意 “亨特·拜登在乌克兰天然气公司布利斯玛董事会任职对美国外交政策没有影响” 的结论吗？do you have any basis to disagree with the conclusion that "Hunter Biden's presence on the board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma had no effect on U.S. foreign policy"?

阿雀答： 不直接。 你是说制定法律之类的吗？ 我不——我不这么认为。Not directly. You mean like making laws? I don't -- I don't think so.

问： 您有什么依据不同意 “亨特·拜登的角色没有影响美国外交政策决策” 的结论吗？Do you have any basis to disagree with the conclusion that "Hunter Biden's role did not influence U.S. foreign policy decisions"?

阿雀答： 我没有。I have -- yeah, I have no basis.

问： 您有什么依据不同意 “副总统拜登是为了美国利益而执行美国外交政策” 的结论吗？Do you have any basis to disagree with the conclusion that "Vice President Biden carried out U.S. foreign policy in the interest of the United States"?

阿雀答：我没有依据来判断，没有依据不同意（这个结论）。I have no basis to judge or disagree

问： 你没有知识——基于你的知识或经验，没有任何理由与这个结论相矛盾。You have no knowledge -- nothing based on your knowledge or experience contradicts this conclusion？

阿雀答： 没有

问： 您的知识或经验是否有任何与 “副总统拜登不存在腐败、违规或不当行为” 这个结论相矛盾？您是否知道副总统拜登有任何不对的行为？Does anything in your knowledge or experience contradict the conclusion that "there was no corruption, wrongdoing, or impropriety on the part of Vice President Biden"?

阿雀答： 我没有依据，我不知道他有任何不对的行为。

问： 因此，根据您的知识和经验，您没有任何证据与我刚刚读到的这些结论相矛盾。So based on your knowledge and experience, you have no evidence that would contradict any of these conclusions I just read.

阿雀答： 没有。

问： 参议院的调查报告还发现，“没有证据表明美国政府或任何美国官员采取的任何行动是为了让布利斯马公司或亨特·拜登受益。” 你有任何证据或知识与这个结论相矛盾吗？The report also found, quote, "No evidence that any action of the U.S. Government or any U.S. official was taken to benefit Burisma or Hunter Biden." Do you have any evidence or knowledge that contradicts this conclusion?

阿雀答： 没有。

问： 那么，根据您所看到、听到和观察到的一切，您是否知道乔·拜登与布利斯马公司有任何牵连？So based on everything you saw, heard, and observed, did you have any knowledge of Joe Biden having any involvement with Burisma?

阿雀答：没有。我唯一的想到的是，如果没有（拜登这个名字）品牌，布利斯马公司就会关闭停业。 这是我唯一诚实的意见。 但我没有任何依据——从未听到过任何对话。My only thought is that I think Burisma would have gone out of business if it didn't have the brand attached to it. That's my, like, only honest opinion. But I have no basis for any -- never heard any conversations

问： 但这跟乔-拜登的行动不是一回事。But that's different than Joe Biden's action.

阿雀答： 对的。